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  1. #1
    William_the_Bloody's Avatar
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    Default It's 2019 and I still don't get...

    Glenn Hughes and 7th Star.

    There are people who claim this is their favorite album.

    If this is your favorite album, you really don't much like Black Sabbath, I think.

    The narrative that this was supposed to be a "Solo album" I think has been proven false, we can discuss that if you haven't heard the evidence.

    Glenn Hughes has a pinchy voice and warbling vibrato, doesn't sell the Dungeons and Dragons lyrics of IFTK and 7S and is even less convincing on
    NSTL and AH. The extra reverb on his voice and the entire production seems to be trying to hide something.

    Tony's tone is so solid-state rack unit it's sad. Might as well be Whitesnake or Kingdom Come.

    The ONLY thing this album has going for it is a few good riffs. DZ, AH, 7S....great riffs. IFTK...nice attempt at thrashing a bit, but lost in the tone and mix and reverb.

    None of this matches the breadth and depth and sheer power and magnitude of the great 8, the HH years, or even Martin albums like CP and TEI.

    Can someone please explain this album to me? How do you justify it, let alone claiming it's your favorite???

    Thanks.

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by William_the_Bloody View Post
    Glenn Hughes and 7th Star.

    There are people who claim this is their favorite album.

    If this is your favorite album, you really don't much like Black Sabbath, I think.

    The narrative that this was supposed to be a "Solo album" I think has been proven false, we can discuss that if you haven't heard the evidence.

    Glenn Hughes has a pinchy voice and warbling vibrato, doesn't sell the Dungeons and Dragons lyrics of IFTK and 7S and is even less convincing on
    NSTL and AH. The extra reverb on his voice and the entire production seems to be trying to hide something.

    Tony's tone is so solid-state rack unit it's sad. Might as well be Whitesnake or Kingdom Come.

    The ONLY thing this album has going for it is a few good riffs. DZ, AH, 7S....great riffs. IFTK...nice attempt at thrashing a bit, but lost in the tone and mix and reverb.

    None of this matches the breadth and depth and sheer power and magnitude of the great 8, the HH years, or even Martin albums like CP and TEI.

    Can someone please explain this album to me? How do you justify it, let alone claiming it's your favorite???

    Thanks.
    Doc will be along in a minute to argue how this plonker of an album is actually one of or if not the greatest album by anybody ever in the history of music...much like he does for the Sabbath albums fronted by the bloke from the deodorant commercials.

    I like the title track a lot, it's a real creeper/grower.
    In Memory and Angry Heart are pretty good too.

    But Yeah, it's an uncohesive, mediocre 80s album by anyone's standards.

    I prefer it to TYR, Headless Cross 13 and Forbidden though
    Last edited by Wheels Of Confusion; 04-30-2019 at 01:52 AM.

  3. #3

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    I.... don't think I've ever heard anyone claim it's the best Sabbath album, lol.

    I'd be interested in the evidence that it wasn't really supposed to be a solo album, I haven't heard that before.

    Seventh Star is my least favorite Sabbath album, but I haven't listened to it in a long time. The other three Sabbath albums I disliked more than I liked, Technical Ecstasy, Headless Cross, and The Devil You Know, I've since grown to like a little to a lot more over the years. Maybe the next time I listen to Seventh Star, it'll happen with that album too.
    Monty Python and the Holy Grail pic extravaganza! http://www.black-sabbath.com/vb/showthread.php?t=31523

  4. #4
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    I think Seventh Star is better than 13,Forbidden,TYR,The Devil you Know,Headless Cross,Dehumanizer,Cross Purposes and Eternal Idol.

  5. #5
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    I enjoy the instrumental demos more than the album. Glenn does not fit well on vocals for the most part in my view.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheels Of Confusion View Post
    Doc will be along in a minute to argue how this plonker of an album is actually one of or if not the greatest album by anybody ever in the history of music...much like he does for the Sabbath albums fronted by the bloke from the deodorant commercials.

    I like the title track a lot, it's a real creeper/grower.
    In Memory and Angry Heart are pretty good too.

    But Yeah, it's an uncohesive, mediocre 80s album by anyone's standards.

    I prefer it to TYR, Headless Cross 13 and Forbidden though
    ..... not THE best all time , but no doubt the 11th greatest release in the history of all and any music -

    1) Sabotage

    1) Dehumanizer

    1) Iommi

    1) Headless Cross

    1) MOR

    6) Born Again

    7) Fused

    8) Black Sabbath

    9) Heaven N Hell

    10) The Eternal Idol

    11) SEVENTH STAR

    ......


    1. "In for the Kill" - Iommi's 3rd most sensational guitar solo ever recorded , not even close.

    2. "No Stranger to Love" - One of the all time great Sabbath tracks!

    3. "Turn to Stone" - Eric is fantastic on this beast of a number.

    4. "Sphinx (The Guardian)" - EXCELLENT!

    5. "Seventh Star" - The 9th greatest Sabbath track ever written.

    6. "Danger Zone" - Iommi's 4th greatest riff of all time.

    7. "Heart Like a Wheel" - The 13th best Sabbath song of all time.

    8. "Angry Heart" - MASTERPIECE!

    9. "In Memory..." - One of my all time favorite Sabbath moments ...


    Couple notes -

    *** William is incorrect , 7th Star was a solo effort right up til moments before it's release.

    *** Glenn Hughes , not opinion , is probably the most talented Rock Vocalist in the world today - undisputed , and not even close , sorry Paul Rodgers.

    *** Glenn was brilliant on SEVENTH STAR.

    *** Paranoid is a perfect album ,, Seventh Star is a near perfect album.


    Great thread!

  7. #7
    William_the_Bloody's Avatar
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    Jeff Fendholdt wrote lyrics for music that ended up as 7th Star under the understanding that he had joined Black Sabbath.

    Iommi wrote 7th star music assuming it was for Black Sabbath.

    That's what I'm reading, anyway.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by William_the_Bloody View Post
    Jeff Fendholdt wrote lyrics for music that ended up as 7th Star under the understanding that he had joined Black Sabbath.

    Iommi wrote 7th star music assuming it was for Black Sabbath.

    That's what I'm reading, anyway.

    Fairly or unfairly, Seventh Star will mostly be remembered for the (self-inflicted) PR farce that ensued upon the album's release. Solo album first, a minute later it's a Sabbath album, then it's back to a solo album...after it (and the tour) bombed. You get the picture.

    And YES, there's a lot more to this story than has been reported---- without question. I couldn't agree more.

    I'll go with you halfway on your earlier comparison W_T_B. I can hear a Whitesnake bent to the material, although I personally don't hear anything resembling Kingdom Come. I found that comparison interesting, to say the least.

    My opinion on the album's merits is still the same. As an Iommi album--- two stars. As a "Black $abbath" album--- ZERO!

    I commend you for wanting to have an objective discussion about an album that commenced a tumultuous 10-year period of Iommi's career. Respect.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by BACK TO EDEN View Post
    ..... not THE best all time , but no doubt the 11th greatest release in the history of all and any music -

    1) Sabotage

    1) Dehumanizer

    1) Iommi

    1) Headless Cross

    1) MOR

    6) Born Again

    7) Fused

    8) Black Sabbath

    9) Heaven N Hell

    10) The Eternal Idol

    11) SEVENTH STAR


    *** Paranoid is a perfect album ,, Seventh Star is a near perfect album.


    Great thread!

    If Paranoid is perfect and Seventh Star is not,why isn´t Paranoid on the list?

  10. #10

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    **** My response to Kennyz is the most important read in this post ....



    Quote Originally Posted by William_the_Bloody View Post
    Jeff Fendholdt wrote lyrics for music that ended up as 7th Star under the understanding that he had joined Black Sabbath.

    Iommi wrote 7th star music assuming it was for Black Sabbath.

    That's what I'm reading, anyway.
    William this is 100% incorrect .... Fenholt joined and "demo" recorded an Iommi solo effort titled "Star Of India" .... at no time was he even remotely involved in a Sabbath project.

    IOMMI never wrote a single solitary note with the impression or intent that it would end up on a Sabbath release .... ALL 9 tracks were complete prior to the powers that be making their changes.

    I did a complete timeline in 2 threads found in this section of the forums that covers this extensively , with pictures and break downs .... final production accetates , vocalist outlines , etc .... that both inside and OUTSIDE this forum , substantial individuals reached out to me for laying down the facts with full and total appriectiation.

    .... I would find and attach those details here (you have my blessings if you would like ....) , but I'm not too proud of my aggressiveness toward those who argued (with nothing) for arguments sake against the absolute 100% facts that I laid out for all to see.



    Quote Originally Posted by A Sabbath Historian View Post
    Fairly or unfairly, Seventh Star will mostly be remembered for the (self-inflicted) PR farce that ensued upon the album's release. Solo album first, a minute later it's a Sabbath album, then it's back to a solo album...after it (and the tour) bombed. You get the picture.

    And YES, there's a lot more to this story than has been reported---- without question. I couldn't agree more.

    I'll go with you halfway on your earlier comparison W_T_B. I can hear a Whitesnake bent to the material, although I personally don't hear anything resembling Kingdom Come. I found that comparison interesting, to say the least.

    My opinion on the album's merits is still the same. As an Iommi album--- two stars. As a "Black $abbath" album--- ZERO!

    I commend you for wanting to have an objective discussion about an album that commenced a tumultuous 10-year period of Iommi's career. Respect.
    Hands down agree with you about William , he in just a few days has invigorated these forums with some fantastic conversation!


    Quote Originally Posted by Kennyz View Post
    If Paranoid is perfect and Seventh Star is not,why isn´t Paranoid on the list?
    Kenny , in the history of what IS "Black Sabbath" .... Paranoid is the 4th most important album Sabbath ever released , just ahead of "TDYK" , yet further away from "Seventh Star" as one might think ....

    MOST IMPORTANT RELEASES IN SABBATH HISTORY -

    1) Heaven N Hell - without it , the world of Black Sabbath as we know it does NOT exist , and THAT INCLUDES this albums importance FOR THE LEGACY of the great 8 .... period.

    2) Black Sabbath - Sabbath doesn't exist if this release was not the most important debut of all time - and it is.

    3) Seventh Star - This release right here solidified IOMMI AS BLACK SABBATH forever , and opened the door to a non stop diverse Sabbath universe , that NO band - not The Beatles , Rush , Purple , no one - has the luxury to exist in outside of One band - BLACK SABBATH!! ..... thank you Mr Don Arden!

    4) Paranoid - The world's most perfect album , allowing Sabbath to become the monster it became.



    @OID , love that you were listening to the GREAT 7TH STAR today at 4 A.M.!


    ***** GREAT WORK once again WILLIAM!
    Last edited by BACK TO EDEN; 05-01-2019 at 08:53 PM. Reason: God Bless Sabbath maniacs!

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  12. #11

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    Exactly Doc, Fenholt later spun the Sabbath narrative to suit his own purposes. But he was never involved in Sabbath, it was still Tony's solo album at that point.

  13. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kennyz View Post
    If Paranoid is perfect and Seventh Star is not,why isn´t Paranoid on the list?
    Perfect doesn't always mean favorite. "Stay Hungry" is a perfect album, but meh.

  14. #13
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    It sounds like my info about 7th Star and Fenholdt and the timeline was coming from a well-meaning but misinformed source. I trust the investigation and all evidence presented at that time was 100% conclusive and now will adopt (once again) the official narrative.

    Thanks for all the kind words about my threads Wait for my "Is Ozzy Mr. Tinkertrain?" thread (Just kidding!) (Or am I?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by BACK TO EDEN View Post
    ..... not THE best all time , but no doubt the 11th greatest release in the history of all and any music -

    1) Sabotage

    1) Dehumanizer

    1) Iommi

    1) Headless Cross

    1) MOR

    6) Born Again

    7) Fused

    8) Black Sabbath

    9) Heaven N Hell

    10) The Eternal Idol

    11) SEVENTH STAR

    Great thread!


    Ok,here´s my list:

    1.Sabbath Bloody Sabbath

    2.Black Sabbath

    3.Vol. 4

    4.Sabotage

    5.Master of Reality

    6.Never Say Die

    7.Mob Rules

    8.Paranoid

    9.Heaven and Hell

    10.Technical Ecstasy

    11.Born Again

    12.Seventh Star

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by William_the_Bloody View Post
    It sounds like my info about 7th Star and Fenholdt and the timeline was coming from a well-meaning but misinformed source. I trust the investigation and all evidence presented at that time was 100% conclusive and now will adopt (once again) the official narrative.
    Problem is, the "official narrative" fails to acknowledge that Iommi and his handlers were in blatant damage-control mode throughout 1986. If you read the Billboard articles from that time, it's as plain as day.

    As always, I'll gladly go on record and say it was the worst PR campaign I've EVER seen for a single album in my lifetime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A Sabbath Historian View Post
    Problem is, the "official narrative" fails to acknowledge that Iommi and his handlers were in blatant damage-control mode throughout 1986. If you read the Billboard articles from that time, it's as plain as day.

    As always, I'll gladly go on record and say it was the worst PR campaign I've EVER seen for a single album in my lifetime.
    Absolutely no question there. It was probably touch-and-go for Born Again too, but that was before I was Sabbath "Woke"

    Which is odd, because when i woke up to Sabbath...1984...Born Again was the most recent album and man, it looked like it had been sitting there for 10 years. It read as "old" just looking at the cover. Strange, eh?
    Last edited by William_the_Bloody; 05-02-2019 at 03:32 PM.

  18. #17
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    Listened to the album front to back on my way to work today for the first time in a while. It's a really good album! Lots of great, catchy songs and melodies.

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    I agree it's down near the bottom of their albums. But at the time it came out it's all we had. It still had Tony Iommi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ala View Post
    Listened to the album front to back on my way to work today for the first time in a while. It's a really good album! Lots of great, catchy songs and melodies.
    That's what happened to me, when I gave this album a another chance, it just took me and now I love it!

    Quote Originally Posted by BACK TO EDEN View Post


    @OID , love that you were listening to the GREAT 7TH STAR today at 4 A.M.!
    Doc, I've only you to credit for me getting into the post Gillan/Sabbath eras, after meeting you and seeing and feeling your enthusiasm and energy involving these eras, I had to give then another chance, hell that's when I went and replaced the entire Martin/Sabbath albums and Hughes/Sabbath album on CD, before I only had them on cassette, and I am so Glad I did, they all get regular spins now.


    Doc you have the Sabbath Shining!
    "Without Black Sabbath there never would have been an Ozzy, and without Ozzy there never would have been a Black Sabbath"
    "If there ever was a band whose voice is so significant and distinct, that band is Black Sabbath and the voice is Ozzy Osbourne"
    ________________________________________OzzyIsDio_ (YoY)

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  22. #20
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    Best Sabbath album \m/

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    Quote Originally Posted by William_the_Bloody View Post
    It sounds like my info about 7th Star and Fenholdt and the timeline was coming from a well-meaning but misinformed source. I trust the investigation and all evidence presented at that time was 100% conclusive and now will adopt (once again) the official narrative.

    Thanks for all the kind words about my threads Wait for my "Is Ozzy Mr. Tinkertrain?" thread (Just kidding!) (Or am I?)
    There isn't really an official narrative, but it's documented that it was originally intended to be a solo album (even in the press in June of 1985 long before it was completed). I cover it in chapter 6 of my book: https://www.amazon.com/Experiencing-.../dp/1442256915

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    Quote Originally Posted by nolanstolz View Post
    There isn't really an official narrative, but it's documented that it was originally intended to be a solo album (even in the press in June of 1985 long before it was completed). I cover it in chapter 6 of my book: https://www.amazon.com/Experiencing-.../dp/1442256915

    Fairly or unfairly nolan, what Iommi "intended" with Seventh Star and what actually happened are vastly different. Just saying.

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